It’s been an exciting month for rape enthusiasts. First, Daniel Tosh made a scorchingly hilarious joke at the expense of a heckler in which he said – you can’t make this shit up – “Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by, like, five guys right now? Like right now?” I, for one, am in tears! Then this weekend, in case you haven’t seen any news at all or been on Facebook or even come close to a human being with a conscience since then, Rep. Todd Akin of Missouri (who is currently running to unseat Senator Claire McCaskill) made the following purely scientific and not at all fuckwitted statement:
If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
So that happened.
But I’m not here to rake these assholes over the coals for their misdeeds, because someone has already beaten me to the punch. And that someone is the Onion.
Guys, this is a fluff piece, but it is the best kind of fluff piece, the kind that we initially envisioned our fluff pieces to be: a fluff piece that serves to make sure that our readers see the best that the world has to offer. And this week, the Onion is hands-fucking-down the best thing that the world has to offer. First, witness their article about Daniel Tosh.
The other night Sarah and I had a discussion with friends about this incident and why we thought it was inexcusable. The friends in question are huge stand-up comedy buffs and had a wide variety of arguments about why freedom of speech is important and the comedian’s role as an envelope-pusher. Make no mistake, I am all for pushing the envelope – I like to think we do it here from time to time – but Sarah’s rebuttal was that Tosh’s word vomit wasn’t comedy. He was reacting to a heckler who called him out for making a tasteless rape joke, and thought that obviously the best way to do that was to say something even more tasteless that was not a joke, but rather a public call for the woman to be brutally gang-raped. I submit the Onion article above to be proof of concept: it is both funny and brutal, and most importantly has a point. Good, envelope-pushing comedy needs to have a point or else it’s no different than a four-year-old who learns she can get a laugh by saying “fuck” in a crowded room. Think of George Carlin or Bill Hicks. In fact, don’t bother thinking, just watch:
Now watch this:
See the difference? Carlin is discussing rape in the context of social issues, freedom of speech and complete absurdity. Tosh is discussing rape in the context of real people and actual brutal assault with absolutely no social context at best, and wishing it on an audience member at worst. It’s not the same thing, and it’s not funny.
Moving on, let’s talk about Todd Akin for a moment. Let me give you a little more context: Akin was asked in an interview with a local television station about his no-abortions-ever-no-seriously-not-ever stance, even in the case of rape. His full response was:
People always try to make that one of those things, ‘Oh, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. It seems to me, first of all, what I understand from doctors is that’s really where—if it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
Let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work, or something, I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.
Ok, let’s just dispense with the semantics of calling a lump of mostly undifferentiated cells a “child” for a moment, if we’re even capable of that. What fucking doctor told you this, Todd? And where can I file the papers to have his medical license revoked? Please tell me it was Rand Paul. That fucker’s been begging to be banned from practice. Wait, I’m getting word from the investigative department here at One Downflaw Plaza…yes…wow, this is exciting, folks. We’re about to give you an exclusive: Fatal Downflaw has obtained photographs of the doctor who taught Rep. Akin all he knows about the female anatomy:
So yeah, Akin is a dickbag and a moron and pretty much every terrible thing you can say about a human being. Enter The Onion, who ran three stories about him yesterday in increasingly hilarious iterations. I highly encourage you to follow these links, because this shit is GOLD. First:
Then:
And finally:
To my mind, this all-out assault on Akin is one of the greatest things The Onion has ever done, possibly even greater than this amazing video from several years ago:
Victim In Fatal Car Accident Tragically Not Glenn Beck
…and that, my friends, is the highest possible praise.
Before I close this out, I want to say a word about the reaction to Akin’s comment. Of course there was enormous public outcry from Democrats, women, rape victims, anyone with a soul or a conscience, and even his own party. Such forward-thinkers as Scott Brown, Joe Scarborough and even Sean Goddamned Hannity have publicly renounced him. And when Hannity refuses to stand behind a Republican who’s said something massive-childhood-head-injury stupid, you know the excrement has well and truly been applied to the cooling appliance. But Akin’s got people in his corner, too. Important, respected people. Like Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association (labeled a hate group by the SPLC in 2005) and Kirk Cameron who people used to like because he was on, like, Charles In Charge or something about a million years ago but is now best known for his propagation of the Crocoduck. When this guy…
…is your strongest supporter, you should probably just go ahead and leave the public eye.
look…I think Daniel Tosh’s jokes, if they were indeed represented fairly by the sole person who transcribed them, were over the line. but I think that deciding you are the arbiter of what is “comedy” and what is not is also over the line, and I think that claiming his response to the heckler was not a joke, but an invitation for men in the crowd to attack her (as the Daily Beast column does) is pretty ludicrous.
free speech issues aside, attending a stand up comedy performance is not an invitation to involve yourself in the performance, or in a dialogue with the performer. would either you or Sarah react favorably if one of your performances were interrupted by someone in the crowd who found themselves offended by what they saw, and decided they needed to make that fact known to EVERYONE, immediately, without delay?
Many, many of my performances have been interrupted by people and I have never once wished them to be assaulted, much less gang-raped on the spot. I’m not claiming to be the arbiter of what’s comedy, but I do think my opinion of what’s funny or not is as valid as anyone else’s. Can you or anyone explain to me why this is a joke? At best it is, as I pretty explicitly stated, the equivalent of a young child yelling profanities because they know it will get an uncomfortable laugh. I mean, maybe I should have qualified it by saying “this is not a funny, well-constructed, at all thought-out or in any way appropriate or constructive joke but rather an off-the-cuff and extraordinarily hateful tantrum”, but I figured that was pretty implicit in what I did say.
As for the accuracy of the transcription, nobody (including Tosh himself) has argued that he was misquoted or that his words were in any way taken out of context, so I see no reason to question.
Hell, I’m guilty as hell of ridiculous hyperbole, but it’s always in the context of violence – something that there is no question is bad. Nobody out there has ever tried to make a distinction (for instance) between “legitimate” and “illegitimate” murder. Rape as a crime is so fraught with societal issues, so wrapped up in specific misogyny and so fucking common that it bears a bit more scrutiny than most other subjects, especially where this sort of public shaming is concerned. If the heckler had been a man, even a man who was protesting that he was offended by rape jokes, Tosh’s first instinct wouldn’t have been to wish rape upon him. When Michael Richards tried to shut down a heckler by calling him a nigger, nobody really stood up to defend him. Why is rape a more acceptable subject for “jokes” than racism?
I should also have made it clear that I don’t support heckling – it’s a shitty, attention-seeking thing to do. The offended woman could easily have just walked out if she was upset. But I stand by my conviction that Tosh was in the wrong to escalate “rape jokes aren’t funny” to “wouldn’t it be funny if this woman was gang-raped right now”.
it’s a joke, because it’s part of a comedy set, being performed by a comedian. an improvisation, no doubt, but still part of the set. are all responses to hecklers invalid as “comedy” or “jokes”? or does it simply stop being a joke when you stop thinking it’s funny? maybe you aren’t claiming to be the arbiter of comedy personally, but according to this post, Sarah pretty explicitly is.
again – I personally do not think what he said is funny. however, I see the comedic through-line between “rape jokes are not funny” and “I think it would be funny if you were raped after saying rape jokes are not funny”. I do not like it, I do not agree with it, I would argue with people who thought it WAS funny (and have), but that does not mean it is not comedy.
Tosh’s first “poorly capitalized” twitter response did, in fact, claim that he was taken out of context and misquoted. the manager of the Laugh Factory said the same. personally, I think that’s an overused and now very lame excuse, but based on what I know of his comedy style and the second hand account of the incident, I don’t find it overly hard to believe.
I think you are really, really reaching to claim that a man objecting to rape jokes would not be the victim of the same reaction. prison rape – more common than rape that occurs outside of prison, and almost exclusively perpetrated against men – is practically a comedy institution. you can barely find references to men being raped that exist outside of the patently absurd “Men’s Rights Movement” that aren’t presented in a comedic context.
the Michael Richards situation was pretty different. he reacted to people in the crowd ordering drinks by calling them stupid blacks and Mexicans, then reacted to the crowd reaction by…well, we all know how he reacted. and yes, people did defend him. just like people defended Tracy Morgan when his routine was very eloquently attacked – by someone who didn’t heckle or interrupt the show, but took to the internet AFTERWARDS, in a very sensible manner.
lastly I think it’s kind of funny that you’re promoting that second Onion article as comedy. it’s vicious satire, no doubt, and should probably be required reading for the old white dudes who think they’re somehow justified in crafting policy based on their misunderstanding of science and sociology – but it is really not funny. I know several women, some who are rape victims, who felt that piece was far over the line, traumatic, distasteful, and hurtful. I tend to agree…but guess what? I still think they were in the right to publish it.
For what it’s worth, I’m not claiming to be king of what’s funny. The discussion was long and meandering and it would be difficult to recreate it but my point, which I stand by, is that Tosh was reverting to personal attack because he was not able to craft a joke to deal with the situation. It was lazy and the idea that it’s not ok to call someone out on their bullshit just because it was in a performance contex is unacceptable.
Yes, hecklers suck. Yes, you should know what kind of comic you are seeing and you should be a respectful audience member during the show.
Ultimately, you also have to take responsibility for your words and understand that when you are being deliberately provocative people will react.
Admit you fucked up or stand by what you said but don’t claim that the words you chose weren’t your responsibility.
Also, it wasn’t funny.
but he did craft a joke to deal with the situation. a joke that none of us thought was funny, but a joke nonetheless. and by calling it a personal attack and denying that it was a joke, you ARE claiming to be the arbiter of comedy. there’s a big difference between saying something isn’t funny, and saying it isn’t comedy. I didn’t think Juno or Old School were funny, but I recognize both as attempts at comedy. I don’t think Tosh’s jokes here were funny, but I recognize it as an attempt at comedy.
you’re removing any artistic license from the act, and claiming it was a personal attack and a call to violence against this lady. if you really believe that, you should be pushing for prosecution, not pillorying him on your website.
are the performers on stage the only ones who are supposed to understand that people will react when they are being deliberately provocative? that doesn’t apply at all to audience members who disrupt the performance?
and no, it wasn’t really funny.
and fuck your fucking spammer box.
Oh, I agree with Nick about fucking the spammer box. Sure, spam might happen without it so okay, but wth, put it up at the top so one doesn’t try to post only to have to type all over again. On the other hand, I disagree with Nick about calling something comedy just because it happens during a comic’s set. I agree with Sarah, who may be neither a king or queen of what’s funny but I think is spot on about attributing laziness (or perhaps ineptness) to Tosh’s “retort” (where are my air quotes when I need them – we need a new symbol). Just because Tosh used, “Wouldn’t it be funny if…,” doesn’t earn the title joke for his statement. Ironic, perhaps, but funny, no. Sure, the idea of any five men in the crowd really taking him up on the proposal was ludicrous but ludicrous does not always equal funny. On the other hand, we’ve all given him far more publicity than he deserves by stretching out this debate. In my opinion, he isn’t all that funny ever. He resorts to physical comedy and bodily functions far too often for my taste which, I believe, is a sign of a lower IQ than, say, your Pryor or Carlin or Stewart or Colbert or Poundstone or DeGeneres or Wright or Steinberg or even Seinfeld. I consider myself a comedy connoisseur which is why I follow the Nienabers in the first place, Malones among them, and I’ll tell you this, Tosh is no Nienaber. I likes my comics to be smart. Steel reeling over the crocduck proof of god thing?
If you guys saw the ridiculous volume of spam comments we get you might think differently about the spammer box. LAY OFF THE SPAMMER BOX, IT HAS FEELINGS TOO.
it is assumed any quotation marks on the internet that are not actual quotations are scare quotes, or “air quotes” if you prefer.
and no, ludicrous does not always equal funny. in this case, I don’t think it equals funny at all. the idea that five random men from the crowd would assault this woman on the implied order of a comedian is somewhat absurd. yes, rape is a very real threat, and yes, we must be ever vigilant about how it appears or is discussed in a civil society – but like all real threats, we must also be vigilant about surrendering to hyperbole, or letting our fear overwhelm our rationality.
again – if anyone truly believes Tosh was calling for this woman to be gang raped in front of hundreds of witnesses, rather than making a rather tasteless joke, they should be pressing for his prosecution, not complaining about it on the internet.
I really believe the distinction between “that is not funny” and “that is not comedy” is important, in this and many other cases. saying you don’t find something funny opens the floor for discussions that can be very harsh, very critical, and very grounded. saying something is simply not comedy removes all notions of artistic license and places the discussion firmly in the “I am right and you are wrong” paradigm before it’s even begun. and comedy IS art, as surely as painting or singing or acting or dancing. we can’t defend something like a Piss Christ on its supposed artistic merits, and denounce something like a bad joke, unless we admit our hypocrisy.
as for bodily functions and humor, I defer to the opinion of Louis CK, in my opinion the most brilliant comedian working today: you don’t have to be a genius to make a fart joke, but you have to be an idiot not to laugh at one.
Curious. At some point in time performances became non-interactive without my noticing it – I wonder how that wretched Shakespeare bloke ever got anything accomplished! I mean, people laughing and clapping and jeering and cheering and hooting and whatevering, total madness and anarchy! How dare they involve themselves!
Seriously though, as annoying as hecklers can be, they are in fact a part of the performance landscape. Practitioners of comedy face it more often that the rest, perhaps, but it has always been there. That a comic has as a joke such a lame comeback as this Tosh schmoe only serves to reveal the lackluster quality of his talents.
As for arbiters of comedy, we all are such. Comedy is a two-way boulevard – some of us take the left at Boudinot well before the comic has driven off the end of the road and is careening amongst the trees somewhere in Dent. That some comics can’t see the traffic signals to tell them to STOP is nothing new…
Hecklers are absolutely part of the performance landscape, yes – the part that performers nearly universally hate, and wish would go away. also part of the performance landscape is the ruthless verbal assault on the heckler. I’ll ask again…are these retorts invariably no longer comedy? or only when we don’t find them funny? was Bill Hicks past the point of comedy when he called his female heckler a “fucking cunt” and ordered her to leave because he couldn’t fucking stand hecklers, or was that ok, because we like Bill Hicks?
Dear Nick,
You are wrong.
Dear Dustin,
You are Dustin,